Tag Archives: moinmoin

MoinMoin as a Personal Wiki, Zen To Done, And A Bit of Ikiwiki

Since I last evaluated and complained about wikis last year, I’ve been using moinmoin for two sites: a public one and a personal one.

The personal site has notes on various projects, and my task lists. I’ve been starting out with the Zen To Done (ebook, PDF, paper) idea. It sounds great, by the way; a nice improvement on the better-known GTD.

My To Do Page

Anyhow, in MoinMoin, I have a ToDos page. At the top are links to pages with different tasks: personal, work, yard, etc. Below that, are the three “big rocks” (as ZTD calls them) for the day: three main goals for the day. I edit that section every day.

The Calendar

And below that, I use MoinMoin’s excellent MonthCalendar macro. I have three calendars in a row: this month, next month, and last month. Each day on the calendar is a link to a wiki page; for instance, ToDos/Calendar/2009-10-01. The day has a red background if the wiki page exists, and white otherwise. So when I need to do something on or by a specific day, I click on the link, click my TaskTemplate, and create a simple wiki page. When I complete all the tasks for that day, I delete that day’s wiki page (and can note what I did as the log message if I like). Very slick.

The Task Lists

My task pages are similar. They look like this:

= Personal =

<<NewPage(TaskTemplate,Create new task,@SELF)>>


So, my personal task page has a heading, then it has an input form with a text box and a button that says “Create new task.” Type something in and that becomes the name for a wiki page, and takes you do the editor to describe it. Below the button is a list of all the sub-pages under the Personal page, which represent the tasks. When a task is done, I delete the page and off the list it goes. I can move items from one list to another by renaming the page. It works very, very nicely.


Part of both ZTD and GTD is that it must be very easy to get your thoughts down. The idea is that if you have to think, “I’ve got to remember this,” then you’ll be stressed and worried about the things you might be forgetting. I have a “Collecting” page, like the Personal or Work pages, that new items appear on when I’m not editing my wiki. They get there by email.

MoinMoin has a nice email system. I’ve set up a secret email address. Mail sent there goes directly into MoinMoin. It does some checks on it, then looks at a combination of the From and Subject lines to decide what to do with it. If I name an existing page, it will append my message the the end. If it’s a new page, it’ll create it. I have it set up so that it takes the subject line as a page name to create/append to under ToDos/Collecting/$subject (by putting that as the “name” on the To line).

So, on my computers, I have a “newtodo” script that invokes mail(1), asks for a subject, and optionally lets me supply a body. Quick and painless.

Also, I’ve added the address to my mobile phone’s address book. That way I don’t have to carry around pen and paper. Need to get down some thought ? No problem. Hit send email, pull the last address sent to, give it a subject and maybe a body. Very slick.

Wiki Software

As a way of updating my posts from last year: I’ve been very happy with MoinMoin overall. It has some oddities, and the biggest one that concerns me is its attachment support. It doesn’t let you specify a maximum upload size, and doesn’t very well let you restrict attachment work to only certain people. But the biggest problem is that it doesn’t track history on attachments. If a vandal deletes the attachment on a page, it’s GONE. They expect to have that fixed in 2.0, coming out in approximately November, 2010.

I also looked at Ikiwiki carefully over the past few days. Several things impressed me. First, everything can be in git. This makes for a very nice offline mode, better than Moin’s offline sync. The comment module is nicer than anything in Moin, and the tagging system is as well. Ikiwiki truly could make a nice blog, and Moin just couldn’t. It also puts backlinks at the bottom of each page automatically, a nice feature. And it’s by Joey Hess, who writes very solid software.

There are also some drawbacks. Chief on that list is that ikiwiki has no built-in history of a page feature. Click History and it expects to take you to gitweb or ViewVC or some such tool. That means that reverting a page requires either git access or cut and pasting. That’s fine for me, but throwing newbies to gitweb suddenly might not be the most easy. Since ikiwiki is a (very smart) wiki compiler, its permission system is a lot less powerful than Moin’s, and notably can’t control read access to pages at all. If you need to do that, you’d have to do it at the webserver level. It does have a calendar, but not one that works like Moin’s does, though I could probably write one easily enough based on what’s there.

A few other minor nits: the email receiving feature is not as versatile as Moin’s, you can’t subscribe to get email notifications on certain pages (RSS feeds only, which would have to be manually tweaked later), and you can’t easily modify the links at the top of each page or create personal bookmarks.

Ikiwiki looks like an excellent tool, but just not quite the right fit for my needs right at the moment. I’ve also started to look at DokuWiki a bit. I was initially scared off by all the plugins I’d have to use, but it does look like a nice software.

I also re-visited MediaWiki, and once again concluded that it is way too complicated for its own good. There are something like a dozen calendar plugins for it, some of which even are thought to work. The one that looked like the one I’d use had a 7-step (2-page) installation process that involved manually running SQL commands and cutting and pasting some obscure HTML code with macros in it. No thanks.

More Wiki Annoyances

So today, I discovered that MoinMoin has an “all or nothing” attachment setting: either everyone with write permission to a page can upload attachments, or uploading attachments is disabled for the entire site. No exceptions. Period.

Not only that, but there is no maximum attachment size setting — unless the attachment was uploaded embedded in a ZIP file. How’s that for irony?

Not wanting to have my railroad site turn into a file trading site, I don’t really want to let everyone upload attachments.

Oh, also MoinMoin doesn’t maintain a history of attachments. So if somebody drives by and vandalizes an attachment, you get to…. restore the original version from tape. Yay?

So I decided I’d look back at MediaWiki, which has better attachment controls.

I still had my test installation, so I went to use it. I edited the main page. I wanted to read about the markup, so I clicked the “Editing help” link. Whoops, broken link. It links to Help:Editing on the local wiki. Which MediaWiki does not install for you. I asked about it on . The answer was: copy from mediawiki.org. OK, fine. How? “Cut and paste.” Yes, that’s right. Every time a new version of MediaWiki comes out, you get to cut and paste dozens of pages from mediawiki.org to your wiki, or else you’ll have outdated help. Yay?

The MediaWiki folks on IRC seem to like it this way. “Not everyone wants the same help.” Fine, but provide a sane default for those that don’t care.

Who thought running a wiki would be so hard?

Update: since yesterday, I went to moinmo.in and fixed the ThemeMarket page to reflect what versions a MoinMoin theme works with. I’m happy to help out with fixing Free Software — though I don’t really have time to add fundamental features like working syntax help links on this particular project.

Wiki Software

I used to run a website for traveling by rail in the United States. I let it falter, and eventually took it down. But I still have the domain, and am working to bring it back as a wiki.

The first step in that process was selecting which wiki software to use. I have a few requirements for the site:

  • Availability of both WYSIWYG (friendly for beginners) and non-WYSIWYG editors
  • A number of nice-looking themes to choose from
  • Nice to have: a hierarchy or category system
  • The ability to search within only a particular section or category in the hierarchy
  • Easy to maintain software; not having tons of plugins to keep up-to-date for security
  • Stellar spam prevention
  • Nice to have: ability to redirect people to the new page after a rename

I’m frustrated that there is no wiki out there that does all of these. There are quite a few that do all but one, but which one they omit varies.

My two finalists were MoinMoin and MediaWiki.


MoinMoin will let you easily define arbitrary categories (by creating a wiki page following a certain name). The search screen automatically presents checkboxes for restricting searches to a particular category. Some reviews have complained about its anti-spam features, but they are all talking about older versions and they seem to have done some work on this lately.

MoinMoin has tons of features and is easy to set up and maintain. But here’s where it falls down: themes.

Over at moinmo.in, there is a “theme market” for themes. Only most of the themes there haven’t been compatible with the current MoinMoin release since about 2005. Most of the rest have one download, then a long discussion page full of mixed bug reports, diffs, and non-diff “edit this to make it work” comments. Most of these don’t state what version of the theme they apply to. Most themes won’t work with current browsers and Moin releases without them. UGH. After discussing on #moin, I’ll probably go in there and at least organize the ThemeMarket page by release.


Then there’s MediaWiki. It’s got a lot of features, and a lot of complexity. It has no current WYSIWYG feature, though apparently there is work on one.

MediaWiki has an amazing category system. It can generate sorted lists of pages in a category, supports subcategories, etc. Surprisingly, though, you can’t search in just one category. (Though it might be possible indirectly via some syntax; not sure.)

Searching in MediaWiki overall is less capable that in MoinMoin.

MediaWiki does offer namespaces, and namespaces are the sole way of searching just one part of a site. They’re used well over at, say, uesp.net. But namespaces are heavy-handed. You have to edit config files to define them, and they bring with them other associated namespaces for discussion and whatnot. It’s not as easy as creating a category in MoinMoin, and might not scale well to lots of future categories.

MediaWiki does appear to have good spam prevention, and support recaptcha.


I eventually selected MoinMoin and have set up most of my content in it. But now that I am to the point of selecting themes, I’m having some second thoughts.

I also looked at DokuWiki. Its design makes me nervous. The user list is stored in a single file. You can’t search by category. You can search by namespace, but there aren’t checkboxes for it in the search screen; you have to know the syntax. WYSIWYG is a plugin. Categories are a plugin. So — too many plugins to maintain, and no real features above MoinMoin.