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	<title>Comments on: Once, We Were Makers</title>
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	<description>Viewpoints on technology, society, and government</description>
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		<title>By: Five &#124; The Changelog</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-9579</link>
		<dc:creator>Five &#124; The Changelog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-9579</guid>
		<description>[...] was something of an impulse buy. I was at the RadioShack in Derby &#8212; a place I&#8217;ve written about before, It is what a RadioShack should (and used to) be. It has a large amateur radio section, sells all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was something of an impulse buy. I was at the RadioShack in Derby &#8212; a place I&#8217;ve written about before, It is what a RadioShack should (and used to) be. It has a large amateur radio section, sells all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Links from the week of 19. July 2010 to 26. July 2010 &#171; Hacker&#39;s Ramblings: Blag by Rix</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6885</link>
		<dc:creator>Links from the week of 19. July 2010 to 26. July 2010 &#171; Hacker&#39;s Ramblings: Blag by Rix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6885</guid>
		<description>[...] Once, We Were Makers &#8212; Well put, John&#8230; I fear my generation will be even worse  Keep the tinkerers alive (Boomtime, the 56th of Confusion in the YOLD 3176) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Once, We Were Makers &#8212; Well put, John&#8230; I fear my generation will be even worse  Keep the tinkerers alive (Boomtime, the 56th of Confusion in the YOLD 3176) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6882</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6882</guid>
		<description>I was given the same 160 in 1 set for a birthday when I was about 11 (back when RadioShack/Tandy were still in the UK).  Incidentally, I too had started programming on my Dad&#039;s TRS-80 a few years earlier.

I&#039;m not sure that RadioShack&#039;s decline is entirely due to society&#039;s change.  All specialised shops have been under pressure from internet mail order.  Shop retail has become increasingly about providing customer experience rather than stock, since they can&#039;t possibly compete with the net on range or price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was given the same 160 in 1 set for a birthday when I was about 11 (back when RadioShack/Tandy were still in the UK).  Incidentally, I too had started programming on my Dad&#8217;s TRS-80 a few years earlier.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that RadioShack&#8217;s decline is entirely due to society&#8217;s change.  All specialised shops have been under pressure from internet mail order.  Shop retail has become increasingly about providing customer experience rather than stock, since they can&#8217;t possibly compete with the net on range or price.</p>
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		<title>By: Mate</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6867</link>
		<dc:creator>Mate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6867</guid>
		<description>As for the discussion on getting too far from the origins, I think it is a valid claim, and I think it makes things less interesting. 

Firstly, the difficult challenges are usually those generated by the environment around us (i.e. Mother Nature) and not those generated by humans -- these latter I think are by definition bounded in complexity by the ingenuity of the human mind. 

Secondly (and more importantly), it is difficult to do &quot;hands-on&quot; problem solving with computers. Humans, and especially children, are very good at handicrafts, but less good at more abstract things. I can, for example, understand things much easier once I can _physically_ grab them, or even just draw them. Show someone a graph, explain what connectivity means, and he/she will immediately understand it. Show the same person a proof that infinite number of primes exist. The latter I think is a trivial proof, but most will give up at the definition of a &quot;prime&quot;.

(PS: I was in the US in 1988, so it makes sense I have that 160-in-1 set ;) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the discussion on getting too far from the origins, I think it is a valid claim, and I think it makes things less interesting. </p>
<p>Firstly, the difficult challenges are usually those generated by the environment around us (i.e. Mother Nature) and not those generated by humans &#8212; these latter I think are by definition bounded in complexity by the ingenuity of the human mind. </p>
<p>Secondly (and more importantly), it is difficult to do &#8220;hands-on&#8221; problem solving with computers. Humans, and especially children, are very good at handicrafts, but less good at more abstract things. I can, for example, understand things much easier once I can _physically_ grab them, or even just draw them. Show someone a graph, explain what connectivity means, and he/she will immediately understand it. Show the same person a proof that infinite number of primes exist. The latter I think is a trivial proof, but most will give up at the definition of a &#8220;prime&#8221;.</p>
<p>(PS: I was in the US in 1988, so it makes sense I have that 160-in-1 set ;) )</p>
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		<title>By: John Goerzen</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6864</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goerzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6864</guid>
		<description>Is RadioShack changing because society has changed or are they just doing it of their own volition?  I agree that (with the exceptions I mentioned) I am no fan of RadioShack any more.  But has RS changed because there aren&#039;t enough people that enjoyed what it was any longer?  I think the answer to that is yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is RadioShack changing because society has changed or are they just doing it of their own volition?  I agree that (with the exceptions I mentioned) I am no fan of RadioShack any more.  But has RS changed because there aren&#8217;t enough people that enjoyed what it was any longer?  I think the answer to that is yes.</p>
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		<title>By: John Goerzen</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6863</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goerzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6863</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, one of my ARRL radio books describes how to make your own resistors ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, one of my ARRL radio books describes how to make your own resistors ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: John Goerzen</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6862</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goerzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6862</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard stories from relatives about some people being astounded to learn where eggs come from.  The mind boggles sometimes at our separation from the source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard stories from relatives about some people being astounded to learn where eggs come from.  The mind boggles sometimes at our separation from the source.</p>
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		<title>By: John Goerzen</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6861</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goerzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6861</guid>
		<description>Wow!  Nice to hear somebody else loved the thing too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  Nice to hear somebody else loved the thing too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6859</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6859</guid>
		<description>Nice piece.  In America, I think we forget that everything we use is &quot;made&quot; somewhere.  We tend to think that &quot;stuff&quot; comes from the store in its most basic form; not from raw materials, assembled by people.

Now that I live in Mexico, I&#039;ve begun to see more of a &quot;Can we build it? Yes we can!&quot; attitude evident around me.  Electronic repair shops are quite common here--a growing rarity in Wichita.

For a while now I&#039;ve had a growing interest in learning to &quot;make&quot; more of the things I use in daily life.  I&#039;ve been &quot;making&quot; fuel (biodiesel and WVO) for my car for several years now.  Learning to do my own auto repairs comes out of the same motivation; as does learning to cook more things--and I mean *real* food, *from scratch*.

I hope I can still find a crystal radio kit for my kids (whenever I have kids)... If not,, maybe I&#039;ll learn how to make my own resistors out of raw materials... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice piece.  In America, I think we forget that everything we use is &#8220;made&#8221; somewhere.  We tend to think that &#8220;stuff&#8221; comes from the store in its most basic form; not from raw materials, assembled by people.</p>
<p>Now that I live in Mexico, I&#8217;ve begun to see more of a &#8220;Can we build it? Yes we can!&#8221; attitude evident around me.  Electronic repair shops are quite common here&#8211;a growing rarity in Wichita.</p>
<p>For a while now I&#8217;ve had a growing interest in learning to &#8220;make&#8221; more of the things I use in daily life.  I&#8217;ve been &#8220;making&#8221; fuel (biodiesel and WVO) for my car for several years now.  Learning to do my own auto repairs comes out of the same motivation; as does learning to cook more things&#8211;and I mean *real* food, *from scratch*.</p>
<p>I hope I can still find a crystal radio kit for my kids (whenever I have kids)&#8230; If not,, maybe I&#8217;ll learn how to make my own resistors out of raw materials&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6858</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6858</guid>
		<description>Radio Shacks death has little to do with people&#039;s loss of tinkering. Radio shack is the worst place to buy anything, except maybe rare batteries you need now. Everything good that they used to carry can be found cheaper online. They usually have pushy staff, and never have what I need. One time I needed some kind of wire terminal they actually had there and they wouldn&#039;t sell it to me because the item&#039;s sku was too old or something and wouldn&#039;t come up.  they had a shelf of these with labeled prices. They probably still have them. Terrible. And this was not a one time or one RS incident, just the worst. If I was at all representative of their clientele, if they made a dollar each time a customer walked out in disgust they would probably be in good financial shape. They have just changed their business model. They just want to sell batteries and cellphone plans. Everything else in the store is just a way to get you to buy those things.


Now as to people losing there desire to tinker. I  don&#039; t think that is completely true. Children are more curious it is easier to get into tinkering as a kid. You have no fear of breaking things and &quot;need&quot; to know how things work. 
Also when you are a kid and you and your best friend tinker that could be a large percentage of your known population.  When you get older you  just know more of the non-tinkers.  You run into more people who are interested in fashion or sports or beer.  How many kids do you think actually got and used that 160 in 1 experiment kit in 1988. I&#039;ll tell you I didn&#039;t do all 160 experiments, admittedly I got mine used and dealing with fried components cooled my interest. There is even a model equivalent that puts components on interlocking pieces with a picture of their circuit diagram symbol so that you can build the circuit diagram and the circuit at once. I saw it over on amazon for $75.  Maybe it does get less usage than the 1988 model, but that is because tinkering has moved to SW. in the professional would people have moved to more design in SW. you have even indicated that you do more tinkering in SW. it is just a more interesting place to tinker in is the cutting edge. Imagine how dull the modern wire your own device would be. spending all you time wiring up address and data lines for 64-bit wide buses for a BGA packaged IC that&#039;s been soldered to 1000 little springs.  and then still having to write 
the software.
One class of components I always thought was under represented in these kits was logic gates. you could wire up a lot of interesting projects with a handful of TTL gate chips and a couple of input switches and output leds. But it&#039;s time has probably  already passed. It would need to integrate with a pc over something like a USB controller, like a phidget, to support projects that would stimulate modern young minds. Maybe a USB connection to a simple programmable  FPGA connected to electrically isolated I/O terminal set that could be connected to various sensors or outputs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radio Shacks death has little to do with people&#8217;s loss of tinkering. Radio shack is the worst place to buy anything, except maybe rare batteries you need now. Everything good that they used to carry can be found cheaper online. They usually have pushy staff, and never have what I need. One time I needed some kind of wire terminal they actually had there and they wouldn&#8217;t sell it to me because the item&#8217;s sku was too old or something and wouldn&#8217;t come up.  they had a shelf of these with labeled prices. They probably still have them. Terrible. And this was not a one time or one RS incident, just the worst. If I was at all representative of their clientele, if they made a dollar each time a customer walked out in disgust they would probably be in good financial shape. They have just changed their business model. They just want to sell batteries and cellphone plans. Everything else in the store is just a way to get you to buy those things.</p>
<p>Now as to people losing there desire to tinker. I  don&#8217; t think that is completely true. Children are more curious it is easier to get into tinkering as a kid. You have no fear of breaking things and &#8220;need&#8221; to know how things work.<br />
Also when you are a kid and you and your best friend tinker that could be a large percentage of your known population.  When you get older you  just know more of the non-tinkers.  You run into more people who are interested in fashion or sports or beer.  How many kids do you think actually got and used that 160 in 1 experiment kit in 1988. I&#8217;ll tell you I didn&#8217;t do all 160 experiments, admittedly I got mine used and dealing with fried components cooled my interest. There is even a model equivalent that puts components on interlocking pieces with a picture of their circuit diagram symbol so that you can build the circuit diagram and the circuit at once. I saw it over on amazon for $75.  Maybe it does get less usage than the 1988 model, but that is because tinkering has moved to SW. in the professional would people have moved to more design in SW. you have even indicated that you do more tinkering in SW. it is just a more interesting place to tinker in is the cutting edge. Imagine how dull the modern wire your own device would be. spending all you time wiring up address and data lines for 64-bit wide buses for a BGA packaged IC that&#8217;s been soldered to 1000 little springs.  and then still having to write<br />
the software.<br />
One class of components I always thought was under represented in these kits was logic gates. you could wire up a lot of interesting projects with a handful of TTL gate chips and a couple of input switches and output leds. But it&#8217;s time has probably  already passed. It would need to integrate with a pc over something like a USB controller, like a phidget, to support projects that would stimulate modern young minds. Maybe a USB connection to a simple programmable  FPGA connected to electrically isolated I/O terminal set that could be connected to various sensors or outputs.</p>
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		<title>By: Who Ever</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6857</link>
		<dc:creator>Who Ever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6857</guid>
		<description>Good read, thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good read, thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6855</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6855</guid>
		<description>SparkFun is kind of like an online RadioShack, and it appears to be growing and thriving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SparkFun is kind of like an online RadioShack, and it appears to be growing and thriving.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Seidenberg</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6854</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Seidenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6854</guid>
		<description>Sadly, Jabob is going to be very very disappointed when he visits a corporate (non-franchise) radio shack. Actually, Radio Shack is doing their best to 1.) Kill the franchise program and have only corporate stores except in the tiniest market 2.) Force the franchises to be exactly like the standard corporate stores in look, feel and most significantly, product selection. It&#039;s quite sad, really. A &quot;Ham RadioShack&quot;, while awesome, is not going to last much longer with the RadioShack brand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, Jabob is going to be very very disappointed when he visits a corporate (non-franchise) radio shack. Actually, Radio Shack is doing their best to 1.) Kill the franchise program and have only corporate stores except in the tiniest market 2.) Force the franchises to be exactly like the standard corporate stores in look, feel and most significantly, product selection. It&#8217;s quite sad, really. A &#8220;Ham RadioShack&#8221;, while awesome, is not going to last much longer with the RadioShack brand.</p>
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		<title>By: Mate</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6853</link>
		<dc:creator>Mate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6853</guid>
		<description>Wow! I had the same exact 160-in-1 kit! I have been searching for its origins for a looooong time. I was only a little kid (6 years old) when we were in the US and my father bought this for me. I think I have built most if not all of the 160 possibilities with it :O I still have the kit somewhere, and I guess it should still work pretty well :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! I had the same exact 160-in-1 kit! I have been searching for its origins for a looooong time. I was only a little kid (6 years old) when we were in the US and my father bought this for me. I think I have built most if not all of the 160 possibilities with it :O I still have the kit somewhere, and I guess it should still work pretty well :)</p>
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		<title>By: John Goerzen</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6852</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goerzen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6852</guid>
		<description>Apple is sort of the antithesis of what I&#039;m talking about.  Don&#039;t be too confident about the iPhone.  Yes, you can build apps for it, but you have to use the language Apple chooses, you have to use the toolset Apple chooses, the apps have to be serving the purpose that Apple chooses (don&#039;t think you can write a web browser), the apps have to be approved by Apple.  The iPhone is a pretty closed platform software-wise, and obviously hardware-wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple is sort of the antithesis of what I&#8217;m talking about.  Don&#8217;t be too confident about the iPhone.  Yes, you can build apps for it, but you have to use the language Apple chooses, you have to use the toolset Apple chooses, the apps have to be serving the purpose that Apple chooses (don&#8217;t think you can write a web browser), the apps have to be approved by Apple.  The iPhone is a pretty closed platform software-wise, and obviously hardware-wise.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Pennebaker</title>
		<link>http://changelog.complete.org/archives/1519-once-we-were-makers/comment-page-1#comment-6851</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Pennebaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://changelog.complete.org/?p=1519#comment-6851</guid>
		<description>Hardware has become highly specialized. Indeed, Arduino developers are a minority. However, software makers have gone way up. Everyone I know at GMU has taken a Java course, or at least an HTML course.

Yes, we pull out sealed iPhones from our pockets. But WE build the apps on them, not Apple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hardware has become highly specialized. Indeed, Arduino developers are a minority. However, software makers have gone way up. Everyone I know at GMU has taken a Java course, or at least an HTML course.</p>
<p>Yes, we pull out sealed iPhones from our pockets. But WE build the apps on them, not Apple.</p>
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